Perry Hoogendijk interviewt Roger Bobo

During the ‘Japan 2006 Tour’ of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra [from here: RCO], I set out to meet one of the people who has had a major influence on me as a young tuba player. After working and living in Europe for several years, Roger Bobo currently resides in Tokio, Japan. Therefore, I was glad to be able to arrange an interview with the man who has, single-handedly, changed the landscape of the tuba.

Roger Bobo was the principal Tubist of the RCO from 1962 to 1964. Roger was willing to give me some insight in the musical and social atmosphere during these years in the RCO and in Amsterdam, the famous ‘sixties’ after all. He tells his story from the perspective of a young, hyper-ambitious kid, ready to explore the world.

Perry Hoogendijk and Roger Bobo in Tokio, Japan. November 2006

Mr. Bobo, when did you play in the RCO?
I graduated from Eastman School of Music in 1960 and got a Master Degree in 1961. I played in the Rochester Symphony Orchestra until 1962 and entered the RCO in September 1962.

What was it that made you write 25 applications for European orchestra’s?
I was curious about European life and European music, and the hunger to travel was in my blood. First I auditioned for the Orchestre de la Suisse Romande (at that time conducted by Ernest Ansermet) in New York, and after that came the audition for the RCO in Amsterdam. They were three weeks apart and I won the ‘Suisse Romande’.

How did the audition in Amsterdam go?
There were not too many people playing. In those days there weren’t  many people auditioning for jobs like this. For the Rochester Symphony Orchestra audition in 1956, only me and another guy were auditioning in New York City. For the Los Angeles Philharmonic job in 1964, I auditioned for Zubin Metha in The Hague. Those days, when a conductor could listen to you and then make a choice, are over.

It must have been a shock for the musicians who were there to hear a tuba player like you?
Well, I didn’t really talk to any of them.
I had just finished my New York Carnegie Hall recital and the publicity of this got me into the audition.

Did you receive any response after the audition?
The audition was very well organized. It was in the Kleine Zaal and Bernard Haitink sat between the members of the jury. On stage, with me, was Marinus Komst (Principal Trumpet at that time). The excerpts were: Meistersinger, Petrouska, Bruckner 7 , Mahler 1 and Cadenza from the ‘Vaughan Williams Tuba  Concerto’. By the way, at that time, nobody had heard of this concerto, because it was written in 1954 and this was only eight years later. Somebody even asked: “What is it this guy is playing”?  It hadn’t become the big audition piece then it would become later. Also, I played A Midsummer Night’s Dream and Mr Komst asked me to play with a big air attack, which I did. I think I didn’t do too many things wrong and played well. And so I got the job.

What instruments did you play on the audition?
In those days, the F tuba wasn’t commonly used in America and I did the whole audition on the small Mirafone 188 C tuba. Also, at that time it wasn’t common to play on “F’s” in the Netherlands either.

So, you had to choose between the ‘Concertgebouw’ and ‘Suisse Romande’.  What made you choose the ‘Concertgebouw’?
Back in Rochester, in a record shop, I bought two records with the same repertoire, played by both orchestras: Incidental Music to Rosamunde by Schubert and Midsummer Night’s Dream by Mendelsohn. The Concertgebouw sounded so much better on these records. So I decided:  Okay, it is going to be Concertgebouw. I flew back to LA, said goodbye to my parents, and took a plane to Amsterdam.

Roger Bobo leaving for
Amsterdam in 1962

You told me you had a hard time finding a space to practise in Amsterdam?.
Yes, but then I found a nice small ‘green room’, which I loved very much: going through the Spiegelzaal, up some stairs. Sometimes I would even move to the attic to practise. In fact, I spent more than a hundred hours of practicing up there and I did my best work ever in these places. But you must realize, I was only 23 years old and so thrilled to be in the Orchestra, in Amsterdam. I was really on cloud nine, to be here in one of the most famous orchestras of Europe.
 

Who played the trombone at that time?
Hans Maassen, Kees Blokker, Piet Schermer, Job Clement.

How did you fit in?
Well, for me it was a totally new world.
They played very small courtois trombones with a smaller bore size than that of a large Bach symphonic trumpet. I was amazed by the sound they were getting. I was amazed by the trumpet sound too. In general, I was a little amazed by the intonation and the sound balance of the brass section.
But what amazed me the most were the acoustics of the Hall. I still remember getting on stage for the first time, just hitting a middle ‘A’, just like that. It was like the light went on and it seemed as if until that point every ‘A’ I  had ever played had been in black en white and suddenly it was in COLOUR. I was completely mistified by that.
When I wasn’t playing I went to listen, very, very often, in the Hall.  Sometimes, I was troubled by the sound of the brass section on stage, and in the section. Out in front, though, it had an unique shimmer and shine to it, that sounded damn good. This has puzzled me for years. I think that it has to do with the acoustics of the Concertgebouw. You see, in the big, less aucousticly sofisticated American halls, like the Lincoln Center, LA Music Center, Eastman Theater and in many other American halls, in order to get the enhancement of your sound (you know: playing a note and suddenly the room rings!), you have to play fortissimo! In the Concertgebouw you just touched it and it lighted up. So, the enhancement of the sound and the sonic feedback came at a much lower dynamic level and I wasn’t used to that, from my previous surroundings. There I had to play loud in order to sound good.

What gear did you use?
Mirafone 188 C and  B en S standard F. Nowadays, I would use something with a larger and rounder sound instead of the Mirafone 188. And the RCO sounds much different now, so it can use a much bigger and rounder sound. I heard some amazing woodwind playing and also your own low brass section sounded pretty good. Please read the review I wrote about the RCO after hearing Sibelius’ Second Symphony. It‘s on my website www.RogerBobo.com, and titled “Questions on Critcism”(under the heading “Writings”).

Did you play with Bernard Haitink? Did it suit you?
Haitink was young and yet he was a co-principal conductor. He was unexperienced. But he was older and more experienced than I was, so who was I to judge. I only had, in my view, a naïve experience of six years playing in Rochester, with Leopold Stokovsky, Pierre Monteux and Erich Leinsdorf as conductors.
I like the way he conducted. He suffered from the stigma of constant comparison with Eduard van Beinum. I was unable to make this comparison. He was a powerful musician, I noticed this especially when he conducted Mahler and Bruckner.
Haitink was well over his twenties.  I was too young to judge him, and he was too young to be judged.
I think he was a little frustrated with me because …….. Then: “I missed many wonderful opportunities to keep my mouth shut”.

Bernard Haitink

Adriaan Boorsma was your predecessor, wasn’t he?  Did you meet him?
I met him once, when he was with the Radio Orchestra in the Concertgebouw and we only talked for five minutes. He seemed a very nice man. After playing in the Concertgebouw he went to the Radio Orchestra.

Do you know why he left the RCO?
I have no idea. It might have been about payment, because I wasn’t very well paid, but I didn’t care. I would have played for free.

So, you still have fond memories of the Hall?
Yes, in fact, it even smelled the same when I visited you two years ago, although the interior was renovated. In 1986, I played in the Hall with the LA Philharmonic and had the same acoustic experience we just have been talking about. Truly a magical place.

Do you cherish a special memory about a piece you played then?
In my first season, it was the 75th anniversary of the RCO and the Orchestra had become a, sort of, National Orchestra. We played 60 concerts, with Mahlers 1st Symphony, all over the Netherlands, in towns and villages. It never bored me to play this piece, it was magical. The RCO recorded it too, with Haitink in 1962, especially for the 75th Anniversary. It might be interesting to see if you can find this recording, because it was probably not for sale.

Then why did you decide to quit?
One of the biggest questions I’ve asked myself during my career has been:” What, if I had decided to stay with the Concertgebouw, would have become of me?” I wouldn’t have been here now, with you, I might still have been the tubist in the Orchestra, Blakeslee wouldn’t have come to the RCO, who knows what would have happened. My life may have been a stable life.

Would you have become the great performer and teacher that you are now?
I don’t know, maybe not. I might have become complacent and happy with Dutch life, “burgelijk”,  so to speak. It is a fascinating question.
The same tempestuousness, curiosity and force that made me come from Rochester to Europe, made me leave Amsterdam, by not being able to see myself retiring in Europe.

So, even though you were so much in love with the orchestra and the Hall,  you decided to go?
Well, I had my frustrations, and, like I said, I missed too much oppertunities to keep my mouth shut. Sometimes I wish I could have done things differently, with the knowledge I have now. I wish I could go through life again with the knowledge I have know.

What would you have done differently?
Oh, my lovelife!
And regarding the orchestra, I would have made a lot more effort to make friends, made more effort to learn Dutch and make more effort to blend in with socially.

Do you think this would have made you a better teamplayer in the section?
To feel more comfortable with my colleagues and myself, yes. I regret having caused friction. And although there was sometimes a good reason for it, I have to say that diplomatically I was a  fool. I was a first-class ambitious kid , and I still am, I think.

What would you say to a youngster like you, in the same position and with the same temparement?
Try to ‘keep your mouth shut’, blend in with the guys, do what they do. “Social success of your section is more important than becoming the ‘best’ section in the world.”, believe me.
On the other hand: don’t become complacent, don’t stop practicing and don’t stop thinking!

Did you have any contact with your successor Donald Blakeslee?
Oh, yes. First of all, my highschool sweetheart went to the Curtis Institute and was engaged to Donald. Her last name was Blakeslee too. She was an extraordinary violinist, and the last I heard of her, she was since a long time playing in Salzburg.
Donald and I got along well, he came to my recital in New York. In the years from 1962 to 1964, Donald studied in Berlin. The management wanted him for six months next to me as an apprentice.
So, after I announced that I was going to quit , the management brought him in.
I remember him as a very intelligent guy, fast in learning languages. I envied him a bit for that.

Donald Blakeslee

Are there other people you have special memories of?
Brian Pollard, the Bassoonist, he was like a big brother to me by saying, in his own special British way, ‘to cool it.’.
Kees Blokker, one of my Trombone colleagues. He was very good to me. He invited me to his house, when he sensed I was having difficulties.
My all time brass hero was Marinus Komst, he was like a ball of energy in the Trumpet section. He has been a major influence on my own playing.
Jan Labordus, the Timpani player, he was wonderful. I could tune to him better then to any low brass or string player.

Can you make a comparison between the RCO then and now?
Oh, that’s hard, it’s a 100 % different cast. I think it is impossible to make a comparison.

Do you think the Hall brings about a certain kind of playing?
Well, to start with, I think most foreign orchestra’s have the tendency to overplay the Hall. Someone once  told me the Chicago Symphony Orchestra had played so loudly, the audience in Amsterdam hated it.

What about your life in Amsterdam, besides the orchestra?
Well, for a boy who grew up in a LA suburb, to find himself in the center of Europe, in Amsterdam in the ‘60’s, each day was like an adventure, each day something amazing happened.
Then, in 1967, the LA Philharmonic went on a ’Ten Weeks around the World Tour’. We were in Teheran for the coronation of the Shah, we went to Yugoslavia, to Great Britain, we went everywhere. It was like my years in Amsterdam: each day there was something new to see, something new to taste, something new to smell. Everything was new. When I came back to LA, after this, all I wanted to do was leave. So I took a sabbatical. Zubin Metha suggested that I should go to Italy, to play with the Maggiore Musicali. After a  few months I decided:”I cannot and will not go back to LA.”.
I sent the LA Philharmonic a letter and they answered I had to return to the orchestra, or pay back the money for the sabbatical year. I calculated that, with the money I was making then, I would be paying them back until 2035! Then I got a call from the orchestra and they said I didn’t have to refund after all. After this they created a clause about future sabbaticals in their contracts, saying someone taking a sabbatical has to return or refund. This clause is still called (and I am very, very proud of  it!) the Bobo-clause. I don’t think the LA Philharmonic get me off the hook out of their goodness of heart. Lawyers probably told them they couldn’t legally ask for the money being returned. And they just couldn’t believe someone not returning to their orchestra.

Any special memories of other conductors?
It were conductors like Bernard Haitink, Pierre Monteux, George Szell and Pierre Boulez who made a big impression on me.
It was a privilege to play in a great orchestra with these great conductors and soloists because, essentially,”It is a continuinig music lesson.”! That’s why you and I are in the position of becoming great teachers, because we are continually together with the world’s best musicians, not to mention our wonderful colleagues in the orchestra.

Mr. Bobo, thank you for this extensive and honest interview,  and thank you for giving my career a boost by inviting me in 1998, in the Colombera restaurant in Riva del Garda in Italy, to play as a emerging young artist at the 1999 Tuba Conference. I am looking forward meeting you again in Amsterdam, and I wish you an inspirational life in Japan.

Perry Hoogendijk, Roger Bobo and Helfred van der Veen in Tokio, Japan. November 2006